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| | | Is it just me, or is it hot out there? | |
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pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:54 am | |
| That's true about how statistics can be used if you cook the books, using data from a period of only a few years, so it really is a good idea to look back over longer periods. What we see is that there have been a number of highs and lows over the last 3000 years, each high lower than the one before, and each low lower than the one before. And, looking back 450,000 years, each ice age has been colder than the one before, and the current "warm period" is cooler than most of the previous ones.
And as for the last 11 years, taking into consideration statistical fluctuations, it's safer to say "no warming" than to say "cooling." The next 5-10 years will be important for analysts, because if temperatures go down, that will be strong evidence that solar activity is the dominant factor.
If temperatures go up, that will support the linkage to greenhouse gases. But right now, the "no warming" trend is defying the modelers predictions, because the temperatures are not following the rapid increase in atmospheric CO2. _________________ I don't do it for the money, babe. I do it to entertain people.-- Susan Boyle
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|  | | John McLaughlin Head Wankee
Gender: Number of posts: 1580 Registration date: 2008-06-09
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:34 pm | |
| Given spans of thousands of years, it's safer to say "no conclusion" from eleven years, which is a drop in the bucket, after all. Climate change is at issue; if the next ice age will be worse than the last, and we're getting only a temporary respite - even if it feels like being the guest of honor at a lobster feast, it's long past time to seek for remedies. Accepted, the present remedies may well be wrong or premature, of course. |
|  | | ISN Torin's Mum

Number of posts: 1380 Registration date: 2008-05-28
 | |  | | John McLaughlin Head Wankee
Gender: Number of posts: 1580 Registration date: 2008-06-09
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:47 am | |
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- And from a link in that site:
"Global warming is the term used to describe a gradual increase in the average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere and its oceans, a change that is believed to be permanently changing the Earth’s climate. While many view the effects of global warming to be more substantial and more rapidly occurring than others do, the scientific consensus on climatic changes related to global warming is that the average temperature of the Earth has risen between 0.4 and 0.8 °C over the past 100 years. The increased volumes of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases released by the burning of fossil fuels, land clearing, agriculture, and other human activities, are believed to be the primary sources of the global warming that has occurred over the past 50 years. Scientists from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate carrying out global warming research have recently predicted that average global temperatures could increase between 1.4 and 5.8 °C by the year 2100. Changes resulting from global warming may include rising sea levels due to the melting of the polar ice caps, as well as an increase in occurrence and severity of storms and other severe weather events."
I'd have preferred the term, "climate change," since it accounts for the severe winters as well as the torrid summers, working together to delete the temperate zones if they carry on long enough. |
|  | | pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:39 pm | |
| The IPCC has been producing a series of those reports. The 3 rd report of the series predicted an average increase in surface temperature of 1.4 to 5.8 C degrees over the period 1990 to 2100, and the average sea level was projected to rise by 10 to 90 cm over the same period. The 4 th report came out in 2007, and predicted temperatures could rise by between 1.1 and 6.4 °C during the 21st century and that sea levels will probably rise by 18 to 59 cm. The large uncertainty range indicates … large uncertainties, I guess. But we are also seeing the uncertainty range grow—in both directions (the 1.1 degree lower limit in the 2007 report is less than the 1.4 degree lower limit in the 2001 report, indicating that 1.4 degrees wasn’t the lower limit after all). It’s also interesting that the rise in sea level associated with the upper value for the projected temperature increase in the 2001 report—5.8 degrees, was 90 cm, while a higher upper limit for the projected temperature increase in the 2007 report—6.4 degrees, is associated with a lesser increase in sea level—59 cm instead of 90 (less by more than a third, even though the temperature projection went up from 5.8 to 6.4  ). Evidently the models are undergoing constant changes. The 5 th IPCC report is already in the works, and it should come out in 2014. I remember the words a wise old mentor nearly 30 years ago: "If you change your mind later, then you can revise your analysis, resulting in continued employment." _________________ I don't do it for the money, babe. I do it to entertain people.-- Susan Boyle
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|  | | pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:05 pm | |
| The problem with attributing an ice age to a particular episode of volcanic activity is that we can see a cycle of ice ages and shorter warm periods recurring at a regular interval of about 100,000 years. Unless we can also identify a regular cycle of volcanic activity recurring over a similar interval, then there must be a different cause. One possible explanation is the theory of so-called "Milankovitch cycles." Milankovitch's theory describes the collective effects of variations in the eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession of the Earth's orbit around the sun. They say you can come up with a 100,000-year cycle if you study those variations, but the explanations on the net are very arcane.  _________________ I don't do it for the money, babe. I do it to entertain people.-- Susan Boyle
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|  | | pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:09 pm | |
| | John McLaughlin wrote: | | ... human activities are believed to be the primary sources of the global warming that has occurred over the past 50 years. |
There's something about that statement that takes me back to the very beginnings of the written word. Haven't we humans always believed that it's all about us? Aren't we incredibly vain?
If there's a great flood, it's all about us. If it rains fire and brimstone, it's because we were naughty. Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, famine and plague--it all happens because the Gods have nothing better to do than watch our every move, and punish deviant behavior.
I'm not saying that our actions are of no consequence, but it does seem to me that we might have an inflated idea of our own importance. If there's a lightening storm, our first reaction is to think "God must have been watching what I did with that neighbor lady." And if the concentration of greenhouse gases goes up, we think "Oh no! It's because I farted!" _________________ I don't do it for the money, babe. I do it to entertain people.-- Susan Boyle
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|  | | pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | |  | | John McLaughlin Head Wankee
Gender: Number of posts: 1580 Registration date: 2008-06-09
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:51 pm | |
| | pinhedz wrote: | | John McLaughlin wrote: | | ... human activities are believed to be the primary sources of the global warming that has occurred over the past 50 years. |
There's something about that statement that takes me back to the very beginnings of the written word. Haven't we humans always believed that it's all about us? Aren't we incredibly vain?
If there's a great flood, it's all about us. If it rains fire and brimstone, it's because we were naughty. Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, famine and plague--it all happens because the Gods have nothing better to do than watch our every move, and punish deviant behavior.
I'm not saying that our actions are of no consequence, but it does seem to me that we might have an inflated idea of our own importance. If there's a lightening storm, our first reaction is to think "God must have been watching what I did with that neighbor lady." And if the concentration of greenhouse gases goes up, we think "Oh no! It's because I farted!" |
Speaking for yourself? |
|  | | John McLaughlin Head Wankee
Gender: Number of posts: 1580 Registration date: 2008-06-09
 | |  | | pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:55 pm | |
| Change is a constant.  _________________ I don't do it for the money, babe. I do it to entertain people.-- Susan Boyle
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|  | | pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:58 pm | |
| | John McLaughlin wrote: | | pinhedz wrote: | | John McLaughlin wrote: | | ... human activities are believed to be the primary sources of the global warming that has occurred over the past 50 years. |
There's something about that statement that takes me back to the very beginnings of the written word. Haven't we humans always believed that it's all about us? Aren't we incredibly vain?
If there's a great flood, it's all about us. If it rains fire and brimstone, it's because we were naughty. Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, famine and plague--it all happens because the Gods have nothing better to do than watch our every move, and punish deviant behavior.
I'm not saying that our actions are of no consequence, but it does seem to me that we might have an inflated idea of our own importance. If there's a lightening storm, our first reaction is to think "God must have been watching what I did with that neighbor lady." And if the concentration of greenhouse gases goes up, we think "Oh no! It's because I farted!" |
Speaking for yourself? |
Was I the one who said this?
| Quote: | | ... human activities are believed to be the primary sources of the global warming that has occurred over the past 50 years. |
_________________ I don't do it for the money, babe. I do it to entertain people.-- Susan Boyle
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|  | | John McLaughlin Head Wankee
Gender: Number of posts: 1580 Registration date: 2008-06-09
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:26 pm | |
| No you said everything else that follows, including the belief that there's global warming because you farted. |
|  | | pinhedz Schrödinger's Hepcat

Number of posts: 4491 Registration date: 2008-04-28
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:38 pm | |
| Human activity that produces greenhouse gas. And yes, I said the rest of it, too. I'm surprised you have no comment on whether or not we have an inflated idea of our own importance. Do you think we caused the great flood and whatever it was that rained down on Sodom and Gomorah? Do you think volcanos erupt for our benefit, and earthquakes lightening occur because of our sins? _________________ I don't do it for the money, babe. I do it to entertain people.-- Susan Boyle
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|  | | John McLaughlin Head Wankee
Gender: Number of posts: 1580 Registration date: 2008-06-09
 | Subject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there? Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:43 am | |
| Actually, I think methane gas is primarily produced by cows, if that's the farting gas you're referring to. What are you trying to do, get a religious discussion going so you can get me to step into the barrel? Sorry, no sale today. |
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