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 Is it just me, or is it hot out there?

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pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat


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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:57 am

The prophet Al reminds me of the biblical prophets. For our sins, a great flood will come.

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John McLaughlin
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:58 am

Would that be Wierd Al Jankovic?

God, he's got me turning into a straight man!
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Eddie
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:25 am

In 2004, the small town of Boscastle, Cornwall suffered extensive flood damage after a 'freak' storm:



A couple of days ago, the small town of Cockermouth, Cumbria suffered a "once-in-a-thousand-years" rainfall event which resulted in tragic loss of life:



Once is happenstance.
Twice is coincidence.
Three times is enemy action.

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John McLaughlin
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:22 am

"Once is happenstance.
Twice is coincidence.
Three times is enemy action"

I like that. So far, we've had one helluvah lot of enemy action.
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pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat


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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:28 am

Are there more floods now than there were in 1999?

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John McLaughlin
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:31 am

Are you curious, or do you already know the answer?

Here's one for India, at least:

http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/node/44310
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pinhedz
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:38 am

I don't know the answer.

If the frequency of floods has been increasing, i.e., if it has been higher during the period, 2004--2009 than it was in 1999, we'll have to take a hard look at how the frequency of flooding is affected by temperature.

1999 was an el-nino year. 2009 was also an el-nino year, but much cooler than 1999.

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pinhedz
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:41 am

Interesting article on india. It shows that the cause of flooding in India is clearly "human activity," but that it has nothing to do with climate change.

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John McLaughlin
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:43 am

Geez, you read fast! Do you absorb as quickly?

Here's a NY article:

http://www.rapidrefile.us/blog/about/the-top-5-worst-floods-in-new-york-history/

- with a followup from its sources:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201297,00.html
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pinhedz
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:04 am

I don't see a correlation that's immediately obvious from the New York article.

1889 was near the end of a 15-year cooling period. After that, temps rose until the late 1990s. Then came 1913, near the end of another 15-year cooling period.

!938, on the other hand, occurred during a warming period--although not at the peak.

2006 and 2007 are well after the temperature peak during the el-nino year of 1999, but right now I don't think we can say whether or not 2006-2007 are part of a temperature trend, either up or down.

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John McLaughlin
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:30 am

If we're talking in terms of a thousand or more years, we can say none of the above is a very clear marker. To say otherwise is to be onstinate in the face of a thousand years.
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pinhedz
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:52 am

I wouldn't attempt to predict a long-term temperature trend based on a 10-year trend, but that doesn't mean we can't try to identify the factors that cause flooding (is it climate change--or is logging and construction disrupting the drainage paths?). And if it's climate change, we can look for short-term causes (if any) of climate change, even if the long-term trend has different causes.

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John McLaughlin
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:34 pm

I don't see how that follows, but anyway, here's a news story on those "thousand year floods" in Cumbria:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6616952/Cumbria-floods-once-in-a-thousand-years-deluge-swamps-defences.html
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Eddie
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:54 am

John McLaughlin wrote:
"Once is happenstance.
Twice is coincidence.
Three times is enemy action"

I like that.


It's from one of Ian Fleming's Bond books, John: Goldfinger, I think. The villain of the piece keeps running into 007, and these are his reflections on the encounters.

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Eddie
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me, or is it hot out there?   Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:57 am

Incidentally, the cost to the insurance companies of the Cockermouth tragedy will be astronomical.

And the authorities are having to survey many Cumbrian bridges to see if they're still safe; one, at least, is on the verge of certain collapse.

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